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Gwynedd and Liverpool
Posted by Hywel Roberts on May 13, 2008 5:58 AM
The AGM of the Gwynedd Family History Society will be held in Caernarfon on Saturday 17 May. The formal AGM meeting for members will start with tea and coffee at 10.30 am and in the afternoon there will be a talk by the Rev Dr D Ben Rees on “The presence of Gwynedd Families in Liverpool and Bootle since 1800”. Potential new members are welcome to come along to this talk and also to find out what the Society has to offer.
Ben Rees has been a Welsh Presbyterian Minister in Liverpool since the end of the 1960s until his recent retirement and has authored a number of books and numerous articles on the history of the Welsh in Liverpool and is active in all aspects of Welsh life in Liverpool.
This year Liverpool is the European City of Culture and Gwynedd Archives are in the process of preparing an exhibition featuring the links between Gwynedd and Liverpool to be held at the Museum in Bangor during September. Dr Rees’s talk is therefore very timely and I’m particularly looking forward to the talk because of my own Liverpool background.
I was born in Liverpool but went to stay with my grandparents in Penmachno during the war and returned to bomb damaged Liverpool in 1945. Although we went back to Wales in 1947 I continued visit Liverpool regularly to stay with my aunt and uncle every school holiday until about 1954 when they also left Liverpool. I therefore have many childhood memories of Liverpool but strangely my subsequent visits to Liverpool were very rare until my daughter went to college in Liverpool in 1998.
This gave me the opportunity to get to know the city again and the memories came flooding back as I took her around to show where I used to live in Litherland, where I went to school, where my grandparents had lived, Gwladys Street School where my father had been a teacher etc.
One day I took her to see the Stanley Road Chapel in Bootle where I had been baptised. Unfortunately the chapel had been completely destroyed in a bombing raid in 1941 so when we returned in 1945 all the services and activities were held in the vestry. The members decided to rebuild and a new chapel, built in a similar style to the old, was opened in 1955 but unfortunately it was closed during the 1990s.
It is now used by the local authority and the building is in good condition but when my daughter and I visited I saw that there was nothing to indicate that this had once been a Welsh Chapel. I felt that there should be a plaque to show its former use and decided to do something about it. I approached Ben Rees, whom I’d known since college days, and money was raised, a plaque was prepared and I was delighted to be invited to the unveiling ceremony during the Bootle Welsh Festival in October 2003. I felt that I’d played a small part in preserving the heritage of this chapel where I was baptised and that had been so important to my parents and thousands of Welsh people over the years.
GFH Society Annual General Meeting Talk, Saturday 17 May 2008, 2.00 pm at Yr Aelwyd, Stryd yr Eglwys (Church Street), Caernarfon.
Guest Speaker: Rev Dr Ben Rees, Liverpool.
“The presence of Gwynedd Families in Liverpool and Bootle since 1800” The talk will be in English
Ask your Archivist
I’ve been sent more information about additional special sessions being organised by the Archives Service in Ynys Môn.
• Have you wondered how to start tracing your family history?
• Have you ever wondered about the history of your house?
• Do you want to know more about a subject or a place on Anglesey?
• Then come along and ask Anne Venables. You can get advice on how to go about doing your own research which includes how to use the Anglesey Archives in Llangefni. Once you’ve started you’ll find it hard to stop!
By appointment only: If you wish to attend any of the sessions listed in the following libraries you should telephone 01248 752083 to book your place.
Benllech Tuesday 13 May, 2-5pm
Cemaes Monday 19 May, 2-6pm
Rhosneigr Wednesday 4 June, 2-4.30 pm
Beaumaris Monday 9 June, 4- 7pm
Moelfre Monday, 16 June, 2-5pm
Llangefni Monday, 7 July 2-7pm
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9. Birth Certificate again
Posted by Hywel Roberts on April 27, 2008 8:50 PM
In Blog No 8 I wrote about the problems that occur sometimes with records for people living in parishes on the borders of counties. This doesn’t only apply to counties with land boundaries as I remember some totally unexpected complications my wife once had when looking for birth details of ancestors in the Brynsiencyn area of Anglesey. She was looking, quite naturally, in the Llangefni Archives and Llangefni Registry Office without success. She eventually found them in the Caernarfon records office!
When there was a regular ferry service from Anglesey to Caernarfon, Caernarfon was the market town for the southern corner of Anglesey and people found it easier to get to Caernarfon than to Llangefni and used to register their births etc in Caernarfon rather than Llangefni. You would only know this if you knew the history of the area but staff in the County Archives and volunteers at the Gwynedd Family History Society open days are very good in bringing such complications, and the potential solutions, to your attention.
These days we have to make an appointment to go the office of the Registrar of Birth, Marriages and Deaths to register a birth but in the nineteenth century a local Registrar would visit people to register the births. If you look back at the birth Certificate for Robert Williams, born in July 1878 shown with Blog 8 you will notice that the Registrar was Matthew R Williams. He was a clockmaker by trade and I have a grandfather clock made by Matthew Williams. My mother said that he was related but I haven’t succeeded in finding the connection yet.
Matthew Williams was the son of Parc, Penmachno, which was the neighbouring farm to Tyddyn Ucha, the home of Robert Williams’ mother, Catherine Roberts, so he was most probably a close family friend rather than a relative. The authors of an excellent 1993 book “The Clockmakers of Llanrwst”, which is mainly about the famous clockmakers John and Watkin Owen, mention Matthew Williams as one of the lesser known clockmakers in the area. In their research they found only one Matthew Williams clock. I have one and I’ve subsequently found one other so there are at least three of Matthew Williams’ clocks surviving today. If anyone reading this piece knows the whereabouts of another Matthew Williams clock, with the name “M Williams, Penmachno” like mine in the photo, I’d be very interested in learning about it.
Being the Registrar of the Yspyty sub-district was a part-time job for Matthew Williams but he sadly hanged himself on 7 March 1879 at the age of 35. In the report on the unfortunate incident in Banner ac Amserau Cymru (12 March 1879) it states that he had spent the previous day in the parishes of Pentrefoelas and Yspyty Ifan collecting details of births and deaths. This would indicate that people would get a message to the Registrar about a birth or a death and he would arrange to visit to collect and record the details.
The Birth Certificate is one of the key documents in tracing your family tree as you will get you will get the exact birth date and details of the father and occupation and address at the time. You will also get the mother’s maiden name. You will always get the mother’s name but in the cases of illegitimate births there will be no name for the father and I’ll give an example of this at some later blog.
Finding a connection with the Registrar, as I did in this case, is an unexpected bonus which you sometimes get when researching your family history. And the story of the clock is itself an interesting story which I’ll write sometime.
GFH Society Annual General Meeting, Saturday 17 May 2008, 2.00 pm at Yr Aelwyd, Stryd yr Eglwys, Caernarfon.
Guest Speaker: Rev Dr Ben Rees, Liverpool.
More about this meeting and the Liverpool connection in the next Blog
The GFH Society meeting for May are:
Bangor, Saturday 10 May Branch Outing: Rhyd Ddu and Nantgwynant with Margaret Dunn
Caernarfon, No meeting
Dolgellau, 8 May (second Thursday of each month) 7.00pm at the Royal Ship Hotel:
Penri Jones Evans, “Hanes Tref y Bala”
Llandudno, No meeting
Llangefni, 15 May, Mystery trip
Pwllheli, No meeting
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More about Birth Certificates
Posted by Hywel Roberts on April 13, 2008 10:25 PM
Last time I wrote about my great grandfather’s Birth Certificate and the example shown was a copy of the register entry of William William’s birth on 29 November 1851. The copy shown was prepared by the then Registrar, Arthur Owen, and dated 16 August 1921. More experienced readers will know that he obtained this copy in preparation for his seventieth birthday on 29 November 1921. He would have needed the certificate in order to be able to prove his age in making an application to receive his old age pension, which at that time was paid at the age of 70. Unfortunately he didn’t get much benefit from his old age pension as he died on 3 February 1922.
This time I show a copy of the Birth Certificate of my grandfather, Robert Williams who was the second of four sons of William Williams and Catherine Roberts. He was born in July 1878 and you will notice that the copy is dated March 1948 which again indicates that it was obtained ahead of his application for an old age pension at the age of 70 in July 1948.
You will notice that his father’s name is down as William P. Williams even though we saw from his birth certificate that he was born William Williams. As he was exactly the same name as his father, he decided to adopt the middle name “Pritchard” taken after his grandfather William Pritchard. He was known, certainly during his adult life, as William Pritchard Williams and I’ve seen many documents that he has signed as William Pritchard Williams. He didn’t change his name officially but simply adopted the middle name. If one was starting to trace the family tree from complete ignorance then this type of change of name could lead to much confusion but I was lucky that I’d listened to my grandparents and then my mother talking about him and I knew about the additional name.
Robert Williams went on to do exactly the same and adopted the middle name “Cadwalader” after his grandfather on his mother’s side. He was subsequently known as Robert Cadwalader Williams despite his birth certificate stating simply Robert Williams.
The family lived at Talywaen which was a terraced house on the main road going into Penmachno but bigger than the Glanypwll terraced houses. Talywaen looks in very good condition today.
On the top of both certificates is shown the Registration District, Llanrwst and the Sub-District, Yspyty. It then states that this is the Counties of Caernarvon and Denbigh. In most cases the District and Sub-District will be within one county but sometimes, as in this case, a sub-district can cover parts of two counties. The Parish of Penmachno was wholly within the old county of Caernarvonshire but the main town in the area, Llanrwst, was in the old county of Denbigh and this has caused me problems from time to time. The sub-district of Yspyty covered the parishes of Penmachno, Yspyty Ifan and Pentrefoelas, the second two being in Denbighshire.
If you’re interested in a parish that is on the border with another county you should check that the nearest main town is within the same county otherwise you could encounter difficulties as I’ve had with Llanrwst being within Denbighshire.
The GFH society meeting for remainder of April and early May are:
Bangor, 10 May: Branch Outing “Rhyd Ddu and Nantgwynant with Margaret Dunn”
Caernarfon, 24 April (last Thursday of each month) 7.00pm at the The Library, Lôn Pafiliwn: Members Evening - talks given by members about aspects their family history
Dolgellau, 8 May (second Thursday of each month) 7.00pm at the Royal Ship Hotel:
Penri Jones Evans, “Hanes Tref y Bala”
Llandudno, 14 April (second Monday of each month) 7.00pm: An evening in the Conwy Archives, Old Board School, Lloyd Street, Llandudno.
Llangefni, 17 April (third Thursday of each month) 7.15pm at Capel Smyrna, Ffordd Glanhwfa: Visit to Yr Aelwyd undertaking research
Pwllheli, 18 April (third Friday of each month) 7.00pm at Capel Seion, Lon Dywod:
John Dilwyn Williams “Gair o brofiad”
Ask your Archivist
I’ve been sent information about special sessions being organised by the Archives Service in Ynys Môn. The first session is at Holyhead Library, Thursday 17 April 2p.m. - 7p.m
• Have you wondered how to start tracing your family history?
• Have you ever wondered about the history of your house?
• Do you want to know more about a subject or a place on Anglesey?
• Then come along and ask Anne Venables. You can get advice on how to go about doing your own research which includes how to use the Anglesey Archives in Llangefni. Once you’ve started you’ll find it hard to stop!
By appointment only: If you wish to attend the above session or any of the further sessions listed below you should telephone 01248 752083 to book your place.
Porthaethwy Thursday 24 April, 2-7pm
Amlwch Thursday 1 May, 2-7pm
Benllech Tuesday 13 May, 2-5pm
Cemaes Monday 19 May, 2-6pm
Rhosneigr Wednesday 4 June, 2-4.30 pm
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Family Baptisms and Birth Certificates
Posted by Hywel Roberts on March 31, 2008 7:22 AM
On Easter Day I had the pleasure of attending the baptism service of my granddaughter Cara in St. Luke’s RC Church, Salford. It was a wonderful experience and it brought back memories of 27 April 1980 when Cara’s mother, my daughter Ceri, was baptised in the Rhosddu Welsh Presbyterian Church, Wrexham.
I have Ceri’s Certificate of Baptism but I’ve no recollection of ever having seen my own Certificate of Baptism and I’ve no idea whether one was ever prepared. However, my parents had kept the Annual Report for the Stanley Road Welsh Calvinistic Methodist Chapel, Bootle, for the year of my birth and my name appears amongst the list of those baptised during that year. This was one of the many document and booklets that I found in the house following my father’s death and I therefore have proof that I was baptised but unfortunately the date is not recorded. Neither is the name of the minister who conducted the service but I do know that it was the Rev. John Easter Ellis because I remember my parents telling me.
Baptism is, of course, a voluntary act depending on the parent’s religious beliefs the strength of their belief and the records are variable depending on the church and how careful the parents are in keeping records.
Birth records are very different as it has been a legal requirement that all births be registered in a civic registration office since 1837. Before this many births would have been recorded in Church records.
The format of the Birth Certificate remained the same from 1837 to 1969 and the example shown is the Birth Certificate of one of my great grandfathers, William Williams, who was born in Penmachno on 29 November 1851. The number in the first column is the number on the register.
The second column shows the date and place of birth which, in this case, was Glan y Pwll, Penmachno. This is a row of terraced houses which were renovated in 2006 and the owner gained a Civic Trust Wales Award for the quality of the renovation work. There’s therefore a good chance that this terrace will still be standing in another 150 years.
The next columns show the name, William, that he was a boy and then the name of his father, William Williams. He therefore had exactly the same name as his father! Next is the name of the mother, Elinor Williams, and the useful information here is that she was formerly Jones. If you didn’t already know it, this information gives you a clue to help you to trace the family history of the mother.
The next column gives the father’s profession or work and in this case is “quarryman” which was the predominant employment for men in Penmachno in those days. Before the start of the quarries, the population of the Parish of Penmachno was about 600 and it rose to nearly 2,000 during the height of the quarries later in nineteenth century. By today, however, the population is back down to about 600.
The birth was not registered on the day of the birth and, like today, someone had to visit the Registrar to register the birth. As the men were working, this task was usually undertaken by the mother and column 8 shows that this was done on 20 December 1851. Column 7 shows that it was Elinor who registered the birth and it also shows that Elinor had made a mark of a cross which the Registrar certified it to be that made by Elinor. This shows that Elinor was not able to write which was quite common in those days. In those days even where there is a signature, this is no guarantee that this person could write as many learnt to write their name but nothing else.
I shall write more about Birth Certificates next time.
The GFH society meeting for April are:
Bangor, 1 April (first Tuesday of each month) 7.00pm at the Quakers Meeting Hall, Dean Street: Gina Kent and Pat Lindsey, “Two short talks”
Caernarfon, 24 April (last Thursday of each month) 7.00pm at The Library, Lôn Pafiliwn: Members Evening - talks given by members about aspects their family history
Dolgellau, 10 April (second Thursday of each month) 7.00pm at the Royal Ship Hotel:
Ann Lloyd Roberts, “Teulu’r Post, Llanuwchlyn”
Llandudno, 14 April (second Monday of each month) 7.00pm: An evening in the Conwy Archives, Old Board School, Lloyd Street, Llandudno.
Llangefni, 17 April (third Thursday of each month) 7.15pm: Visit to Yr Aelwyd to undertake
research
Pwllheli, 18 April (third Friday of each month) 7.00pm at Capel Seion, Lon Dywod:
John Dilwyn Williams “Gair o brofiad”
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Commonwealth War Graves Commission
Posted by Hywel Roberts on March 16, 2008 9:45 PM
There has been some discussion in Caernarfon in recent weeks about the future of the Boer War memorial on top of Twtil, the hill that dominates the town. (see photo) It’s in a spectacular location with views in all directions over the town and the famous castle, towards Segontium Roman Fort; over the Menai Straits and Ynys Môn in one direction and the mountains of Eryri in the other. However, it’s not easy to get to, particularly if you have the slightest walking problem, and there had been suggestions that it should be moved to a more accessible locations such as Twtil Square which was thought suitable as so many of the men from Caernarfon who served in the Boer War came from the Twtil area.
We had invited the Caernarfon Chairman of the RWF Comrades Association to come to a meeting of the Caernarfon Civic Society to discuss the situation. To prepare myself for the meeting I decided to do some research into Boer War Memorials which I knew were fairly rare. I found a number of websites including www.roll-ofhonour.com/Boer which I found to be the most useful. This contained details of memorials in various towns and cities but in Wales only two were listed, in Llandudno and Merthyr Tydfil. The memorial in Caernarfon was not listed and I realised that the list was not complete and this is because the website is run by volunteers. They are to be applauded for the work they do but clearly they do not have the resources of a professional organisation and I realised that there is no comprehensive list of the dead of the Boer War.
It’s different for the casualties of WW1 and WW2 where cemeteries and their records are cared for by the Commonwealth War Graves Commission. Since its establishment in 1917, the Commission has constructed 2,500 war cemeteries and plots, erecting headstones over graves and, in instances where the remains are missing, inscribing the names of the dead on permanent memorials. Over one million casualties are now commemorated at military and civil sites in some 150 countries.
If you have a relative who was lost in these wars and are uncertain of the details then you should visit www.cwgc.org and go to the search page. The more information you have the easier it will be but if, for example, you only know his name and that he was killed in WW1 then you simply enter his surname and initials with the time range of 1914 to 1918 and you’ll get a list of all persons of that name who were killed during the war. Against each entry you will find his rank, Service Number, date of death, age when killed, regiment, nationality, the grave or memorial reference number and the name of the cemetery where he was buried. If you don’t know any of these details then you’ll have to check each name in turn until you, hopefully, find your relative. When you click on the name you get additional information including the next of kin which, in the case of single men, would be his parents and their address and this should be sufficient for you to be able to identify your relative.
You can also get information about the cemetery, its location and how to get there and there are also photographs. You’ll find a Cemetery Plan so that if you did decide to visit you could easily find your way to the grave of your relative. You’ll also find a Certificate that is a record of exactly what is written on the gravestone. Anyone interested in learning about relatives lost in the world wars should visit this site.
The GFH society meeting for remainder of March and April are:
Bangor, 1 April (first Tuesday of each month) 7.00pm at the Quakers Meeting Hall, Dean Street: Gina Kent and Pat Lindsey, “Two short talks”
Caernarfon, 27 March (last Thursday of each month) 7.00pm at the The Library, Lôn Pafiliwn: Geraint Jones, “Hanes Nant Gwrtheyrn”
Dolgellau, 10 April (second Thursday of each month) 7.00pm at the Royal Ship Hotel:
Ann Lloyd Roberts, “Teulu’r Post, Llanuwchlyn”
Llandudno, 11 March (second Monday of each month) 7.00pm at The Library, Mostyn Street: Margaret Dunn, “Dating old houses in Snowdonia”.
Llangefni, 20 March (third Thursday of each month) 7.15pm at Capel Smyrna, Ffordd Glanhwfa: Stephen Binks of Western Front Battlefield Tours “Wales and the Great War’
Pwllheli, 21 March (third Friday of each month) 7.00pm at Capel Seion, Lon Dywod: Dr Hywel Wyn Owen, “Llen Cynefin”
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No 5 Childhood Memories, New ITV series and a BBC Roadshow
Posted by Hywel Roberts on March 1, 2008 7:28 AM
Last week I saw a story in the Daily Post saying that the pier in Trefor in Llyn was in danger of being demolished which brought to mind a story about my grandfather. Thomas Roberts, from Llithfaen, was a joiner by trade and spent some 20 years working in Liverpool before he sensibly or fortuitously returned to Llithfaen in 1939 just before the outbreak of war. He found work with the quarry company in Trefor. In those days the pier was in frequent use with ships calling to be loaded with granite. I remember as a small boy growing up in post war bomb damaged Liverpool that the highlight of a trip into town on the overhead railway along the docks was to see that one dock always contained ships from the Penmaenmawr Granite Company. They had collected granite from the quarries at Penmaenmawr, Trefor and Nant Gwtheyrn and it made me think about my grandfather working in the quarries.
One day my grandfather was doing some repair work on the pier and fell into the sea. He couldn’t swim so his workmates threw out a lifebelt and managed to pull him out. When they pulled him out they amazingly found that he was still holding on to his hammer! In those days craftsmen were responsible for supplying their own tools and they took great care of their tools. Clearly my grandfather’s fear of loosing his hammer was greater than his fear of drowning!
Its little stories like this that makes the pictures that we have of a person interesting. On reading the story in the Daily Post I realised that I hadn’t recorded this story. It’s one of the stories that have stuck in my mind as I remember him showing me his water-stained National Identity Card which had been in his pocket at the time that he fell into the sea. But if I don’t record the story then it will be lost for ever. Needless to say that I’ve now done this but this has brought home to me the need to record important and interesting stories otherwise they will be lost and this is such an important part of passing on our family history to future generations. I very much hope that the Trefor pier will be saved.
New ITV series, “The Great British Body” – volunteers required
Following an enquiry to the Gwynedd Family History Society I made contact last week with Molly Gilbert who’s working on a new ITV series called “The Great British Body”. The objective is to do some research on the characteristics of British people and to investigate similarities. They are trying to gather together people who can trace their ancestors within one county and they made enquiries about the old Caernarvonshire and Merionethshire. If your ancestors to great grandparent stage were all born in either of these counties then you qualify to take part in the programme.
The intention is to invite you to one of a number of locations throughout Britain and they will then measure you, weigh you, take DNA samples etc. They’d also like to hear of any interesting stories that you may have about your family history. The series is to be hosted by Trina and Susannah and it could be that they will interview you if your story is considered to be sufficiently interesting.
Unfortunately, the nearest event to us is in Birmingham on Saturday 19th April but they will be organising a coach to take you there. If you’re interested and would like more information I suggest that you contact Molly Gilbert on 020 7261 3076 or email greatbritishbody@itv.com. They will ask you to send details of your family tree and some photos.
BBC Radio Wales “Look Up Your Genes” Roadshow
'Look Up Your Genes' is BBC Radio Wales' long-running family history programme (a new series of which starts in April). On March 15th, they will be holding a Family History Information day at Dolgellau Library between 9.30am and 4.00pm. Genealogist Cat Whiteaway (who you may have seen on BBC Wales TV, researching the family histories of people like Cilla Black, Susan Sarandon, and Donny Osmond) will give a 20 minute talk about how to start researching your family history (aimed at beginners) - this talk is then repeated throughout the day at half past the hour until 2.30pm. After each talk, members of the public will be allocated a computer and researcher, who will then help them with some research, depending on how far they have already got. Cat will be on hand to advise on more complicated searches, as well as members of Gwynedd Archive Services who have kindly offered to help.
I remember going to a similar event in Caernarfon a few years ago and it was very interesting. I remember being interviewed about a particular event in my family history and the interview subsequently being broadcast in one of the programmes in the radio series. If you have an interesting story, and would be prepared to be interviewed, then contact Louise Booker on 02920 322393. Otherwise, you can simply drop in to this free event at any time during the day but if you wish to use a computer you must pre-book by calling the BBC Information Line on 08703 500 700.
The Gwynedd Family History Society meetings for March are:
Bangor, 4 March (first Tuesday of each month) 7.00pm at the Quakers Meeting Hall, Dean Street: Venessa Fields, “The five Vincents of Llanfairfechan”
Caernarfon, 27 March (last Thursday of each month) 7.00pm at the The Library, Lôn Pafiliwn: Geraint Jones, “Hanes Nant Gwrtheyrn”
Dolgellau, 13 March (second Thursday of each month) 7.00pm at the Royal Ship Hotel: Hywel Roberts, “Morwyn Glasgwm Hall”
Llandudno, 11 March (second Monday of each month) 7.00pm at The Library, Mostyn Street: Margaret Dunn, “Dating old houses in Snowdonia”.
Llangefni, 20 Mawrth (third Thursday of each month) 7.15pm at Capel Smyrna, Ffordd Glanhwfa: Stephen Binks of Western Front Battlefield Tours “Wales and the Great War’
Pwllheli, 21 March (third Friday of each month) 7.00pm at Capel Seion, Lon Dywod: Dr Hywel Wyn Owen, “Llen Cynefin”
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